Dan Clancy from Google, Pat Steel from Indiana Univ, Kevin Smith from Duke, Lee Van Orschel from Grand Valley State Univ, Crosby Kamper III from Kansas City Public Library.
Talking about the settlement, Dan Clancy mentioned that with it the libraries will get copies of anything they own, not just things scanned from their collections. Without the settlement they get only files of things scanned from their collections.
Pat Steele mentioned that CIC sites want to concentrate efforts on what they can do to complement Google work. Hathi is part of that. She said the earlier, go it alone digitization projects were a disaster from her point of view. There was no way the libraries could get the stuff digitized.
Lee talked about negative issues concerning the proposed settlement. For the 4-5 million in copyright out of print titles without a subscription libraries could view 25%, view 100% for a fee. No copy/paste. With a subscription you can copy/paste 4 p. at a time, print 20 p. at a time You can annotate and link to files from Blackboard and other Course Management systems. But no libraries were party to the settlement only Google authors and publishers. Libraries could be sued for up to 5 million. She had concerns
Kevin is a librarian and a lawyer. He was concerned about Google developing targeted advertising based on what you have already read. He has big privacy concerns on the part of the library. He was concerned there would be a disincentive to get things into public domain on the part of Google or the publishers. As a basis legal position he pointed out that in this class action suit, Google and the plaintives all share an economic interest in definind the class. Normally a class action suit is about defending a basic right. Here it is about a basic right being licensed.
Crosby pointed out that the source of copyright goes back to a 1710 UK court decision that was done to reverse monopoly on printing/publishing. So it was to get rid of monopoly. And now we may be going back to give Google a monopoly. We are going from a royalty model to a fee model. Public libraries have never been fee based, so it doesn’t work for that. Public libraries need to be at the table. Privacy needs to be covered. Limit of 1 terminal for a big public like NYPL is ridiculous. Fair use needs to be defined, as he fears fair use will be narrowed. the 20 pg limit for printing is too arbitrary.
Dan Clancy commented that Google thinks there should be orphan title legislation. They want that spelled out. He also mentioned there are 2 research databases specified by the settlement that would be administered by libraries. This would be for full text processing research. Now only Google can do text processing with the settlement others can do it.
Dan said for privacy issues were not an appropriate topic for the settlement, this will be covered by Google and customers including the libraries and he claimed libraries are tough negociators. For photos, Google scans but they won’t make available. Libraries do get.
Pat mentioned that HathiTrust is looking to develop services like the Research Corpus, the text processing. She mentioned space as a service in libraries saying public libs have offered this but academics have not. She sees the books taking up too much space and wants to move them out and offer the space for other campus activities.
Dan Clancy said they estimated more books will be deaccessioned from libraries. He thought libs would concentrate on special collections, smaller subsets that Google would not be interested in. He said Google wants this to be a good consumer product and the only way for that to work is if it is inexpensive. He said they thought most users of Google are not in the university and aren’t going to the public library, and they are the ones whose usage of these materials can increase with availability via Google. He anticipated costs of something like $5.99 and thought you could offer links to libraries who would drop ship a copy to borrow, or you could buy. Libraries could buy access to a copy rather than doing ILL.
There was a concern that by forcing public libraries to a fee based scenario this would deepen the digital divide.
Dan Clancy said thinking about what will happen to new books published in the future is a real challenge. He said in public libraries users want the most recent imprints. What will happen there> This settlement won’t impact what happens there. He called it the Big Question
He also responded to critcism saying Google hoped the settlement would open up public domain and make it easier to clear up questions about who had rights to things and what could be declared as being in public domain.
It was an interesting presentation in a full room with quite a few questions.
